Why was Charger capacity reduced ?

[Lightning Jones]

I know I’m running the risk of being run out of town and shot at dawn for not find the answer to my in a previous discussion. Sorry!

Can someone tell me why the older Lightning had a 80a AC charger onboard and why it was reduced to 48a?

Simple question, simple answer please.

Battery Health.
80amps while charging faster also, put a heavier strain on the battery bank over time.
48amps was found to be the best balance between charge rate and longterm battery health.
I read that Super Chargers can reduce our battery lifespan by half from 1,000-1,200 full charges (10-90%) to under half of that.
The best charge is actually the slowest, lowest amp, 110v chargers.
It is gentle and slow compared to ravaging and fast.

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[Scorpio3d]

Those are the hours my solar panels are sitting idle, I have 47kw on my roof and my house batteries are taken care of between 10-11. (85kw 100% full)
I’m also looking into DC charging….

WOW!
That is a lot of solar! I actually have to de-rate my FCSP to about 40 amp because I have an 18 kW system and after the battery is full I only have about 9 kW during those hours if I am home.

 

[sysop1]

are you trying to 'refill' the whole battery EVERY DAY??

it's not the 'norm' to need the full battery capacity every day, some of us don't use a fraction of it in a whole week... at least on a normal basis.

or, are you trying to use the battery for your 'off grid' living?

I've never, in almost 60,000 miles, needed a day where I just 'had to have' a higher charging rate than the supplied 30amp 240v Mobile EVSE...

I have, many times. Also it's about the power company pushing TOU rates where electricity is cheaper between 12am and 6am for example. The more power you can put into the truck during super off-peak rates the more you save, the cheaper it's to charge.

 

[Shmoe]

Battery Health.
80amps while charging faster also, put a heavier strain on the battery bank over time.
48amps was found to be the best balance between charge rate and longterm battery health.
I read that Super Chargers can reduce our battery lifespan by half from 1,000-1,200 full charges (10-90%) to under half of that.
The best charge is actually the slowest, lowest amp, 110v chargers.
It is gentle and slow compared to ravaging and fast.

It was definitely a cost saving move. There is lots of evidence stating that these are myths when it comes to 80A/DC Fast charging a battery coming to light from Uber/Lyft drivers etc.

 

[RickLightning]

Those are the hours my solar panels are sitting idle, I have 47kw on my roof and my house batteries are taken care of between 10-11. (85kw 100% full)
I’m also looking into DC charging….

DC fast charging is going to cost well into 6 figures.

 

[Heliian]

Ford knows exactly how many people used the 80a charging.
It was obviously not enough to justify the second charger in cost and weight.

It's still a fleet option.

 

[RocketGhost]

To answer the first question, Ford initially put an 80a charger in the Lightnings for marketing. They marketed the truck as capable of serious truck stuff. They wanted to say it only takes a few hours to fully recharge so it can handle daily high mileage use.

They removed it to cut costs. In the real world very few people cared about 80a charging. I have charged over 48a (it was 60a or 80a, can't remember) once, at a hotel (of all places). But I didn't need to charge that fast as I had all night.

I do wonder why it was a dual charger setup and not one charger that could handle 80a. Maybe they designed it so that they could derate the charging speed in the future by just removing a charger instead of designing a new 48a one. Or maybe there is a technical reason it had to be two.

 

[Adventureboy]

Love your setup.

I think your original question was answered, but this might clarify - The MY 2023 and earlier had two onboard chargers to achieve 80 amps. The second charger was dropped for most models in 2024. Fleet models (Pro) can still be ordered with the second charger. If you found a really smart Ford Tech, you may be able to add the second charger, but it would likely be prohibitively expensive and may be error-prone since your model doesn't natively support it and the software required to run it.

You have a few options.
1) Start charging earlier - your solar system is large enough to charge your batteries and charge the Lightning simultaneously. It appears that you prioritize the house battery charging, and you may still want to do so on less sunny days, but for many days, you can just charge them simultaneously.
2) DC Charging - You mentioned this - it is a more expensive option than L2 charging and cheaper than trying to add the 2nd onboard charger. DC charging is not limited by the onboard L2 charger capacity and it is more efficient than converting solar DC to AC with your home inverter and then back from AC to DC by the Lightning's onboard charger to charge the Lightning. You probably have around 15%-18% loss with the dual conversion, and efficiency can be improved a fair bit with DC-DC charging.
3) On forecasted sunny days, you can start charging your Lightning early morning from the reserve capacity in your batteries that is not planned to be used. Obviously, retain a decent reserve but it can get you going earlier if you need to drive that day.

 

[The Weatherman]

Well it seems we have missed the easiest cheapest solution. Buy a used 2022 or 2023 With the ER battery. Problem solved.

 

[Nikos]

Ford knows exactly how many people used the 80a charging.
It was obviously not enough to justify the second charger in cost and weight.

It's still a fleet option.

Agree with what you said. Ford knows when you use the 80amp Pro charger. I remember in August of 2022 when I requested from SunRun to give me my Pro charger that they held in a warehouse in California. It was Ford’s idea to generate business for SunRun.
Anyways, since I had purchased the first 2022 Lariat Lightning with power back option, the 80amp charger was a must. Setting up that charger was a bit of a problem. After a lengthy back and forth with Ford technical support to unlock the charger and get it to communicate with the Power Pro app, I was directed to Siemens tech support team which in a three way call, (almost a two hour call), managed to connect the device to the internet and “ see/aquire “, the Siemens servers and Ford servers. Both parties could see what the charger was doing and managed to download the latest updates to control overheating when the amperage reached its max.
Yes, Ford and Siemens know when the charger is online.
Another thing, if you opted for the power back option you got to have the 80amp charger. Is that option available any longer?

 

[bmwhitetx]

instead of designing a new 48a one.

Remember the SR battery has always only had the single 48A single charger. I'm guessing early on they wanted the ER trucks to charge in roughly the same time as the SR so they added the second charger instead of designing a single 80A one.

 

[Baja Lightning]

Love your setup.

I think your original question was answered, but this might clarify - The MY 2023 and earlier had two onboard chargers to achieve 80 amps. The second charger was dropped for most models in 2024. Fleet models (Pro) can still be ordered with the second charger. If you found a really smart Ford Tech, you may be able to add the second charger, but it would likely be prohibitively expensive and may be error-prone since your model doesn't natively support it and the software required to run it.

You have a few options.
1) Start charging earlier - your solar system is large enough to charge your batteries and charge the Lightning simultaneously. It appears that you prioritize the house battery charging, and you may still want to do so on less sunny days, but for many days, you can just charge them simultaneously.
2) DC Charging - You mentioned this - it is a more expensive option than L2 charging and cheaper than trying to add the 2nd onboard charger. DC charging is not limited by the onboard L2 charger capacity and it is more efficient than converting solar DC to AC with your home inverter and then back from AC to DC by the Lightning's onboard charger to charge the Lightning. You probably have around 15%-18% loss with the dual conversion, and efficiency can be improved a fair bit with DC-DC charging.
3) On forecasted sunny days, you can start charging your Lightning early morning from the reserve capacity in your batteries that is not planned to be used. Obviously, retain a decent reserve but it can get you going earlier if you need to drive that day.

Thank you for that answer, that is what I was looking for. Much appreciated.
Simultaneously charging is something I have not tried. I will look into it. Now in the summer times I also use about 5- 8kw running the house, I have a few AC running 24/7…..
We have clear skies and sun 350 days a year. Although we do get some cloudy days we have not had any rain in the last two years. But lots of sun.
I found a 40kw DC charger specifically designed to charge a EV DC to DC from a big solar array for about $1,500. (Not 6 figures) I’m waiting for the manufacturer to get back to me to confirm, specs, pricing and availability.
Thanks again for your reply…

 

[Baja Lightning]

DC fast charging is going to cost well into 6 figures.

Not if it’s a DC to DC EV charger designed specifically for solar to EV charging.

 

[Zprime29]

Those are the hours my solar panels are sitting idle, I have 47kw on my roof and my house batteries are taken care of between 10-11. (85kw 100% full)
I’m also looking into DC charging….

@Adventureboy said exactly what I was thinking. Just charge both from the start and you will still top everything up. That's the easiest and cheapest solution.

DC fast charging is going to cost well into 6 figures.

I don't think he meant full on DCFC. There are a handful of DC home chargers in the $8k-$10k range that provide 20kW+ rates. That would be the next best option. I can't remember if I've seen anyone post here about using those, so no idea how reliable they are.

Battery Health.
80amps while charging faster also, put a heavier strain on the battery bank over time.
48amps was found to be the best balance between charge rate and longterm battery health.
I read that Super Chargers can reduce our battery lifespan by half from 1,000-1,200 full charges (10-90%) to under half of that.
The best charge is actually the slowest, lowest amp, 110v chargers.
It is gentle and slow compared to ravaging and fast.

Ignoring losses, 80A is 19kW or 0.14C for the ER battery. Dropping to 48A reduces that to 0.09C. You are only lowering the C rate by 0.05C, that's hardly going to make a difference on battery life. Far more impactful is the depth of charge. It would be better to charge at 80A 70%-90% over several days than wait till the end of the week and do one big charge at 48A.

Most studies reference 1-1.5C as the sweet spot for DCFC, so it's no coincidence as to why we cap around 150-180kW. As mentioned, several ride share EV's hitting multiple 100's of thousands of miles and are still seeing 85-90% capacity. So I wouldn't sweat charging at 19kW.

 

[Zprime29]

I found a 40kw DC charger specifically designed to charge a EV DC to DC from a big solar array for about $1,500. (Not 6 figures) I’m waiting for the manufacturer to get back to me to confirm, specs, pricing and availability.
Thanks again for your reply…

For $1500?? Wow, that would be a very reasonable price from other offerings I saw.

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