Footprint of 131Kwh battery vs 98 kw battery

[blueI5land]

Are they the EXACT SAME? same connections? same EXACTLY? in other words if both were laid side by side would there be ANY difference other than weight?

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[P-38]

And the modules are different inside, not just more. I forget how exactly. It's in a thread somewhere.

 

[Heliian]

And the modules are different inside, not just more. I forget how exactly. It's in a thread somewhere.

I think there were 2 or 3 different module sizes. They pulled the smallest module out for the new reduced capacity ER trucks I think.

 

[bmwhitetx]

Man, everybody is "remembering" wrong. There are three different size battery packs. The original 98kWh SR, original 131kWh ER, and the 123kWh Medium range (for 2025 Flash job 2*)

All three packs have 9 modules - 6 on bottom, 3 on top. The number of pouch cells in each module differs. Here is a post where the nitty gritty details are:
https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/posts/488187/

Basically the ER has 8 large modules and 1 small. The SR has all 9 small. And the MR has 6 large and 3 small.

* - also the ER Pro for fleets

 

[watts/up]

All three packs have 9 modules - 6 on bottom, 3 on top. The number of pouch cells in each module differs. Here is a post where the nitty gritty details are:
https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/posts/488187/

At one point In the OOS video of the Lightning production line Kyle asked the Ford rep which battery they were looking at and he said you couldn’t tell just by looking at them so this makes sense.

 

[chl]

And the modules are different inside, not just more. I forget how exactly. It's in a thread somewhere.

If I got the information down correctly:

480 cells = 131 kwh battery in the ER (8 x 55 + 1 x 40) or 96 series groups of 5 parallel cells - 8 x 15kWh and 1 x 11kWh

450 cells = 123 kwh battery in the Flash (6 x 55 + 3 x 40) or 90 series groups of 5 parallel cells - 6 x 15kWh and 3 x 11kWh

360 cells = 98 kwh battery in the SR (9 x 40) or 90 series groups of 4 parallel cells - each module = 11kWh

They all have 9 modules and the 9 modules all take up the same physical space in the truck.

Also, the SR and Flash have one 11kW charger, while the ER has two 9.6kW chargers.

 

[chl]

Numbers are skewed due to the fact you're calculating it based on energy available for use, the packs themselves are larger in capacity than the stated usable capacity.

True, just going with the numbers I got from a Ford source - net not gross. Unsure what the buffer sizes are, but all that really matters to the user is the net-usable size anyway.

 

[P-38]

If I got the information down correctly:

480 cells = 131 kwh battery in the ER (8 x 55 + 1 x 40) or 96 series groups of 5 parallel cells - 8 x 15kWh and 1 x 11kWh

450 cells = 123 kwh battery in the Flash (6 x 55 + 3 x 40) or 90 series groups of 5 parallel cells - 6 x 15kWh and 3 x 11kWh

360 cells = 98 kwh battery in the SR (9 x 40) or 90 series groups of 4 parallel cells - each module = 11kWh

They all have 9 modules and the 9 modules all take up the same physical space in the truck.

Also, the SR and Flash have one 11kW charger, while the ER has two 9.6kW chargers.

Of note starting in 2024 all models have a single on board charger. Unless it was a fleet model that was ordered with dual on board chargers.

 

[chl]

From the owners manual link in Ford pass for my truck they show this info and I have the 123kWh rating.

Thanks, nice chart. I didn't know what the "buffer" capacity was.

I suppose the difference between 123kWh and 142.1kWh is the "buffer" extra battery capacity for health so the battery does not get too close to actual 100% or actual 0% controlled by the BMS (battery management system).

Sort of like gross and net income. The "usable" capacity is the net.

PS: AI had told me this but hadn't seen it in writing from Ford.

"The F-150 Lightning Extended Range has a total battery capacity of approximately 146-148 kWh, with a net usable capacity of 131 kWh"

 

[MountainAlive]

Are they the EXACT SAME? same connections? same EXACTLY? in other words if both were laid side by side would there be ANY difference other than weight?

Are you asking because you’re wondering about swapping from a smaller pack to a bigger pack?

 

[SmoothJ]

Thanks, nice chart. I didn't know what the "buffer" capacity was.

I suppose the difference between 123kWh and 142.1kWh is the "buffer" extra battery capacity for health so the battery does not get too close to actual 100% or actual 0% controlled by the BMS (battery management system).

Sort of like gross and net income. The "usable" capacity is the net.

PS: AI had told me this but hadn't seen it in writing from Ford.

"The F-150 Lightning Extended Range has a total battery capacity of approximately 146-148 kWh, with a net usable capacity of 131 kWh"

I remember having this conversation with a Ford rep at the NYIAT. He thought I had 2 heads when I told him that the F150L ER had a battery pack size of 143.4kWh with only 131kWh usable.

 

[WXman]

Interesting thread. I kind of wondered about this. So the new 123 kWh pack is the same chemistry and design, they just reduced number of cells slightly as a cost-cutting measure (along with the other laundry list of things they cut) for the Flash trim level this year.

 

[SmoothJ]

Interesting thread. I kind of wondered about this. So the new 123 kWh pack is the same chemistry and design, they just reduced number of cells slightly as a cost-cutting measure (along with the other laundry list of things they cut) for the Flash trim level this year.

It seems that way. Smaller battery and therefore smaller buffer. Also, IMHO, less battery longevity.

 

[bmwhitetx]

Interesting thread. I kind of wondered about this. So the new 123 kWh pack is the same chemistry and design, they just reduced number of cells slightly as a cost-cutting measure (along with the other laundry list of things they cut) for the Flash trim level this year.

Yes same chemistry and design but reduced cell count. Here is a layout of the nine modules (Ford also refers to them as arrays):

Note #1-8 are the same size and #9 is smaller in size. Here are how they are populated (small modules in yellow).

Each pouch cell has 0.29875 kWh. Note the total kWh shown is full capacity and what you will see on the battery label (examples below). As mentioned, there is a buffer and usable capacity is less, e.g. 131 kWh for the ER.

For the 2025 Job 2 Flash they replaced two 16.43 kWh modules with the the smaller 11.95 kWh ones.

Battery stickers:

 

[chl]

It seems that way. Smaller battery and therefore smaller buffer. Also, IMHO, less battery longevity.

I wonder about putting more cells in the same space though regarding longevity and reliability.

Need good heat management - for dissipation and thermal expansion which could be more of a challenge with the higher density batteries.

Heat is a major factor in battery longevity so thermal management is critical.

Also charging rate has to be faster (higher current) to get to the same charge level in the same time as a less densely packed battery.

Has anyone noticed more failures of Lightning batteries in ER's vs SR's?

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