Charging While Driving Works w/ Gas Generator in Bed (Range Extending for F-150 Lightning)

[RickLightning]

Sweeping assumption... Did you.poll a representative group to come up with that number?

Quick acan of this thread proves you wrong. If you don't like the option then just don't comment on the thread.

Because 99.9% of Lightning owners are represented by the handful on this thread. Got it!

As for commenting, 1) it's a forum, anyone can comment. 2) I said it was interesting for the generation back into the driving vehicle.

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[jeffreyF150lightning]

Zach,
I live in Tulsa, too. Excited to see how this progresses...your experiment, Ford's patent, and the idea of a tow behind option.

 

[RLXXI]

FYI Stelantis, (if they are still working on it) will utilize a range extender gas generator in their BEV trucks, I put a deposit down on one I need to get back since buying the Lightning.

 

[NCevGuyF150]

Redacted post by Martin from FB:
***Martin Rebuilds Tow Rig Update / Charge While Driving News***

TLDR - In short:
-Charge while driving works

Some of you know me know and know I am huge Ford and particularly Lightning fan. I run Martin Rebuilds and host the Tech Charged podcast with Christopher Bowe and Jace Craft-Miller. Over the last couple years I've have several Lightnings at the shop and have clocked nearly 100k miles towing all over the nation and Canada. The Lightning is hands down the best towing truck (under 10k lbs) I have ever owned. This is coming from owning multiple brands and sizes of every truck made and I still stand behind my belief that the Lightning is the best. In fact, we just bought a "new to us" 23 ER Lariat max tow for the shop but a change is needed.

Charge While Driving News - As some of you know, I have been working with Zachary Scott Carpenter and Patrick Cheung on a generator that can charge the Lightning while driving down the road. Last week Zach had a very successful test logging over 700 miles running a Ford branded generator while running down the highway at 70mph. It was able to move the efficiency from 1.8 mi/kwh to an impressive 2.3 mi/kwh adding 50 miles of range out of a measly 7kw ford mobile charger. With a much larger generator we expect to nearly double the Lightnings range. See the chart below for what to expect at different speeds and generator sizes.

Genset test upside - The range added will only be limited by 2 factors, 1. How much generator you put in. 2. How big the on board charger in the Lightning is. The 2022 and 2023 Lightning have 80 amp charging so you will see up to 19kw added which means over 500 miles of range. The 2024+ Lightning has 48 amp charging so we expect to see 350 miles of range.

Genset test downside - In the interest of honesty and transparency, which is the core value of my YouTube Channel, the biggest downside I have with the generator is the noise level. To be fair, we tested this with a really loud generator and a lot can be done to quiet these things down. Inverter generators are much quieter and sound proofing can be added to reduce the noise.

My Take on Range Extending - With the shop getting more busy, increasing the volume of towing coupled with several long distance vacations a year, the need for a longer distance tow rig is real. For me, the best 2 things about the lightning are the quiet cabin and the incredible power. Those 2 things are THE reasons I have stayed with the lightning for so long. With that said, my opinion is adding a generator to the truck takes away from the Lightning experience so we have decided to change our tow rig. Instead of trying to add a generator to the Lightning or range extending it, we are going to a larger battery truck.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am Zach the electrical engineer talked about in this post and I met Martin in Joplin the day after this test:


I just got back to Tulsa and put almost 1000mi on my truck driving while charging @ 7kW.

I am not as concerned with the noise as Martin suddenly was when he took a drive with me, but I AM 100% positive that an inverter generator with sound attenuation is a must for this project. We're still not sure how we'll release this to the public, what will be included, what we'll be selling, or what generator we'll be doing the final testing with, but I have ordered this generator:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Westinghou...ane-Natural-Gas-Inverter-Generator/5016661947

I am also proceeding with programming many features like auto generator start/stop based on speed, modification/real time calculation of the GoM, generator fuel level reporting on the infotainment screen, full control to configure the charging rate at all times, and more. I should have more updates this weekend and more testing.

Please don't clog this thread up with stupid comments and/or safety Karen worries. Martin and I are both engineers and will fully test every aspect of this mod before we release anything to the community. I want this to be a technical brainstorming discussion and hear some other's perspectives. Martin can get on here and post his range extending estimation spreadsheet soon. Thanks, ~Zach

Would it be appropriate for me to ask how much petroleum per hour was burned running the generator?

 

[ZSC100]

Would it be appropriate for me to ask how much petroleum per hour was burned running the generator?

Sure, with this Ford generator it burns about 1gal/hr generating 7kW. So, a pathetic efficiency of around 25% if you assume 30kWhr of energy in a gallon of gas.

 

[I <3 My Lightning]

Not really pathetic at 25% for gasoline efficiency... Basically that's really good for gasoline efficiency.

 

[hturnerfamily]

for any gas or diesel generator to produce 7kwh or 240v @ 30amps CONTINUOUSLY for many, many hours, is, well, no, not a good idea...... but...

that doesn't mean it doesn't have merit in certain use cases - which a very few might find worth the high cost, the continuous NOISE, the WEIGHT of the generator and the requirement to also carry additional gas or diesel, if the generator will need it, and, well, now also stopping at gas stations, as needed...

this is just not a well-designed idea for the masses

now as for RAM's REV idea, and while seemingly a well-integrated engine 'generator', it still points to some of the same issues: additional cost for an engine, engine weight and associated equipment, the noise of a running engine, and the need to also stop at gas stations... an idea, yes, but probably not a good practical use design, for the masses, although those with FREQUENT towing in mind might just find it a nice 'option' ... since the truck, is, well, a PURE EV, otherwise.

 

[ZSC100]

Not really pathetic at 25% for gasoline efficiency... Basically that's really good for gasoline efficiency.

Yeah pathetic is in the eye of the beholder I guess, and when you drive an EV and likely despise ICEs In general, overall efficiency of 25% is pretty hard to swallow. Wasting half of the fuel to heat right off the bat sucks, but you can't argue with physics. The same thing is happening to 90+% of lightning owners at the power plant, but it's easier to neglect because it's out of sight and the end user energy cost is much better.

 

[I <3 My Lightning]

I do commend all of you on your innovative approach and willingness to experiment.

What you are proposing is great for charging desserts but we all know in actuality the cost efficiency just to run the generator is equal to some rates to fast chargers.

However hauling a generator vs. 20 to 30 extra kWh of additional batteries in the bed is more cost effective in today's world.

 

[ZSC100]

I do commend all of you on your innovative approach and willingness to experiment.

What you are proposing is great for charging desserts but we all know in actuality the cost efficiency just to run the generator is equal to some rates to fast chargers.

However hauling a generator vs. 20 to 30 extra kWh of additional batteries in the bed is more cost effective in today's world.

Yes, this is the kind of technical discussion I need and from various perspectives.

Just like DC Fast charging doesn't make sense, with the one exception of a long distance time sensitive road trip,

a range extending generator doesn't make sense, with the one exception of a long distance time sensitive road trip where the fast charging infrastructure isn't quite there yet.

 

[mq019]

Definitely not something that I'd use regularly, but getting setup so that I could, when/if needed throw a generator in the bed of the truck and get additional range while driving, there's definitely value there.

 

[RLXXI]

Yes, this is the kind of technical discussion I need and from various perspectives.

Just like DC Fast charging doesn't make sense, with the one exception of a long distance time sensitive road trip,

a range extending generator doesn't make sense, with the one exception of a long distance time sensitive road trip where the fast charging infrastructure isn't quite there yet.

People camping in the sticks would also benefit from the genset.

 

[I <3 My Lightning]

What I would like to see your team of great minds do, (not being sarcastic, I enjoy watching Martin's rebuild projects as it is very educational for me), is you have to go to the junk yard and grab a leaf, sol ev, really any smaller EV battery or a hybrid battery, build a an ambulance like gurney for easy in and out of the bed and charge off of that.

You have a proof of concept just execute it perhaps on another non-prohibited cost way for your team.

Creating a flexible intermediate device that allows for various source connections to charge while driving would be great.

 

[Theredshift]

Solar generators? Maybe?

 

[hturnerfamily]

what you've 'built', is basically the RAM REV's version of an EV Truck with an onboard 'engine' to produce charging power, while traveling... yes... I like that you've overcome the normal inability to charge while traveling...

and, yes, it works, but practicality reigns.

One 'cost' solution: you could cut the battery pack in half, saving a bulk of money, and supplant it with this generator design, from a cost-perspective... and, well, now you have a truck with 1/2 the 'normal' acceptable range, but you overcome that with the generator... maybe... probably still not a great idea.

also, the obvious need is for a J1772 inlet within the bed area... but, that will also take up room within the bed, which is already limited... especially now with a huge generator in the bed. No more room for plywood, lumber, or those things a truck is used for. : / sad.

certainly, if you have a secondary J1772 in the bed area, with the right software override, it would be a much easier idea to swallow... I know you're working on it.

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