Charging While Driving Works w/ Gas Generator in Bed (Range Extending for F-150 Lightning)

[Newton]

for any gas or diesel generator to produce 7kwh or 240v @ 30amps CONTINUOUSLY for many, many hours, is, well, no, not a good idea...... but...

That is what generators are designed to do (especially diesel), for month after month sometimes. You have to match the generator with the demand - running a lightly loaded diesel for long periods is bad, but If the demand is in the sweet spot you will only ever have to stop it for oil changes.

What I would rather see is a LiPo battery that could be forked into the back of the pickup when needed (or something in the trailer like systems that already exist). With a long extension cord so you could charge at two DCFCs at once

Sponsored

 

[hturnerfamily]

right, for sure, but, what I was really referring to as 'not a good idea' was more about the practicality of a running a noisy generator in the back of a truck, while in heavy stop and go traffic, or parked at walmart, etc... but, there again, I don't like most 'trucks' with diesel motors, idling loudly, especially with turbos, either...

 

[jdmackes]

""
I have toyed with the idea of making a frame for the truck bed to hold 3, 15kWh 48v server rack packs, about 650 lbs.
""
45kWhr for 650lbs, that's a great power density, same weight as 3 adults for an extra 100mi of range. What truck would that "squat", I wouldn't even notice that much weight in my truck?

See, this type of a solution would work well for me. I have an I-beam in my garage and I could just get a pully to roll along that and use it to load and unload the batteries from my truck when I need them.

 

[LightningCanuckNB]

Wait... are you saying the lightning lets you drive with the charger connected?! What??!?!

I am very interested in this whole topic. BTW, other researchers online have done the math and found that an F150 Lightning + Generator is more fuel efficient than an ICE F150, so there is really little to argue about here.

You should use a higher capacity charger for this video though

 

[hstrip]

I think this is great! Thanks for posting! I love my lightning. The money it saves me in gas each month is one of the main reasons I bought it. I mostly drive around town so it's perfect. Once of twice a month I go out of town so this would be amazing. The amount of time it would save would be great!

 

[HI Zeus]

I have often wonder what is possible with these trucks, but I have very limited knowledge of electricity! I always wondered if you could add an alternator or generator onto some type of wheel to generate electricity. I remember reading this many years ago and always remember strange things:
https://www.zdnet.com/article/with-...rbine-windtronics-ushers-in-urban-wind-power/
Sorry if this is stupid, but it just shows my lack of knowledge in this area. Good luck with your project and keep us updated.

Any energy retrieved from a wheel attachment will first have to be created by another source (the current Lightning motors and battery in this case), if you lost nothing in the process you'd be at net zero gain, but in reality you loose energy every time you convert electricity to motion and vice versa, as well as every time you move and manipulate the electricity.

 

[Scorpio3d]

Any energy retrieved from a wheel attachment will first have to be created by another source (the current Lightning motors and battery in this case), if you lost nothing in the process you'd be at net zero gain, but in reality you loose energy every time you convert electricity to motion and vice versa, as well as every time you move and manipulate the electricity.

Yeah, I understand that part of it as far as you you could not just run indefinitely because of the losses, but if you could recoup 25%, 50% or 75% (or even 10% )then that is just more range! My thought was just to add a “generator wheel” or something similar that could just recoup some of the energy. You could do it like the reverse of a front wheel on a fighter jet so that it was always touching the ground, but would also move up and down with the truck.
Just my random weird thoughts

 

[ZSC100]

Yeah, I understand that part of it as far as you you could not just run indefinitely because of the losses, but if you could recoup 25%, 50% or 75% (or even 10% )then that is just more range! My thought was just to add a “generator wheel” or something similar that could just recoup some of the energy. You could do it like the reverse of a front wheel on a fighter jet so that it was always touching the ground, but would also move up and down with the truck.
Just my random weird thoughts

Which part exactly DO you understand? B/c this is the only part you need to understand: "Any energy retrieved from a wheel attachment will first have to be created by another source (the current Lightning motors and battery in this case)" That's all you need to understand and the physics law it comes from is "Conservation of Energy" .

The Lightning already does the absolute best job of recovering energy that you can ever hope for with regen braking via it's permanent magnet motors. Any recovery you would do in any other way would just be a less efficient way of regen braking.

We science nerds aren't laughing at you b/c this is not the first time we've heard this, not even close. The best way to explain why it will NEVER work is that harvesting energy in ANY way will hurt the efficiency of the vehicle in a net loss amount. This is why EVERY single perpetual motion machine you see on the internet is FAKE. It sucks, but it's true, Energy is Conserved, no matter how much you believe it may not be.

 

[MM in SouthTX]

Now suppose a typical Lightning owner uses their truck to daily drive to from work most of the time, and don't need any range extension most of the time. But they go on a fishing trip one week a year with a buddy and need extra energy for the boat trailer, and their favourite fishing lake has no charging near by...the bed mounted J1772 solves this once a year situation perfectly with either a genny or a battery pack or both.

Just rent a truck for that weekend. Lots cheaper.

 

[ZSC100]

Just rent a truck for that weekend. Lots cheaper.

That's a fine suggestion, but there are many that have specialized things with their trucks that may not mesh with this solution. Most rental car companies don't want you towing anything. Owners may also have outfitted their trucks with thing like special tools, supplies, or niceties that are not easily transferrable. This isn't a solution for everyone, but there are plenty that are interested.

 

[Scorpio3d]

Which part exactly DO you understand? B/c this is the only part you need to understand: "Any energy retrieved from a wheel attachment will first have to be created by another source (the current Lightning motors and battery in this case)" That's all you need to understand and the physics law it comes from is "Conservation of Energy" .

The Lightning already does the absolute best job of recovering energy that you can ever hope for with regen braking via it's permanent magnet motors. Any recovery you would do in any other way would just be a less efficient way of regen braking.

We science nerds aren't laughing at you b/c this is not the first time we've heard this, not even close. The best way to explain why it will NEVER work is that harvesting energy in ANY way will hurt the efficiency of the vehicle in a net loss amount. This is why EVERY single perpetual motion machine you see on the internet is FAKE. It sucks, but it's true, Energy is Conserved, no matter how much you believe it may not be.

I generally understand how things work or can figure it out. I don’t care if people laugh with me or at me or don’t laugh at all. I have always been one to think outside of the box and it would seem you are as well. The thing about science is it’s mostly theory and when new information or a new way of thinking is presented and proven then the science changes!
E =MC squared has only been around since Einstein came up with the theory around 120 years ago.
They used to think everything orbited around the Earth, they used to think the world was flat(although that has made a resurgence lately). So maybe thinking outside of the box is a good thing!-nothing is possible until it is.

 

[Traconesu]

SUPER COOL!!

Seriously, I'm astounded Ford has not patented a charging "trailer" connector that would allow the truck to charge from an external source. If one could rent a generator, or use one on your trailer, it would go a LONG ways towards alleviating range anxiety.


For the interested, with an efficiency of around 2.0mi/kwh at 70mph, and 10.5kw charging (my charging rate with my 48a charger)

Power draw at 70 mph without charger

• Efficiency: 2.0 mi/kWh
• Energy use: 70÷2.0=35 kW70 \div 2.0 = 35 \, \text{kW}70÷2.0=35kW

Net battery drain with charger

• Charger output: 10.5 kW
• Net battery draw: 35−10.5=24.5 kW35 - 10.5 = 24.5 \, \text{kW}35−10.5=24.5kW

Effective battery efficiency

• 70÷24.5≈2.86 mi/kWh (battery-derived)70 \div 24.5 \approx 2.86 \, \text{mi/kWh (battery-derived)}70÷24.5≈2.86mi/kWh (battery-derived)

New range

• Battery capacity: 131 kWh
• Range: 131×2.86≈374 miles131 \times 2.86 \approx 374 \, \text{miles}131×2.86≈374miles

Result: Range improves from ~262 mi to ~374 mi → about +112 miles extra range.

If towing, and getting an efficiency of say 1.0 and charging at 19kw (~80a charger).

Power draw at 70 mph towing

• 1.0 mi/kWh → 70 kW draw

Net battery drain with charger
70−19=51 kW70 - 19 = 51 \, \text{kW}70−19=51kW
Effective battery efficiency
70÷51≈1.37 mi/kWh (battery-derived)70 \div 51 \approx 1.37 \, \text{mi/kWh (battery-derived)}70÷51≈1.37mi/kWh (battery-derived)
New range
131×1.37≈179 miles131 \times 1.37 \approx 179 \, \text{miles}131×1.37≈179miles

Result while towing:

• Without charger: ~131 miles range
• With 19 kW charging while driving: ~179 miles range
• Gain: +48 miles

And since chat GPT was being so handy, it made a chart of towing range gain with various charger inputs.

Charging at 19.2 kw would require a very large generator that had at least a 20 kw run output. My ford 80 amp charger never charges at the full 19.2 kwh but.closer to 17 kwh output.

 

[Traconesu]

If this solution can be sold- I'm 100% onboard. The range problem is the biggest issue with this truck and if there is a way to get 50-80% more range with the use of a generator I'm willing to pay for it.

As a lightning owner who purchased my lightning to get away from the use of gasoline this concept of using a generator to charge my lightning doesn't make as much sense as just purchasing a hybrid that utilizes a HV battery to extend its range.

 

[El Duderino]

As a lightning owner who purchased my lightning to get away from the use of gasoline this concept of using a generator to charge my lightning doesn't make as much sense as just purchasing a hybrid that utilizes a HV battery to extend its range.

Ramcharger isn't sold/available to the public yet..

 

[Traconesu]

Ramcharger isn't sold/available to the public yet..

I'm sorry I didn't mention anything about a ram charger. I'm not even sure what that is. Does it have anything to do with the lightning. What is a ram charger?

Sponsored