Portable EVSE Amps over 110v/120v

[jefro]

A 120VAC EVSE is an emergency device.

Get a portable 240VAC or combo 120/240 to use at campgrounds. Then you'd need 50A circuit and hope they wired it correctly.

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[Maquis]

...

You aren't telling me anything I don't know. I am thinking that the truck is doing the limitation here as it is detecting 120v and thinking it doesn't want to overload a potential 15 amp circuit (edit: as others said it sounds like other chargers are working over 10 amps, so as below I'll ask the EVSE manufacturer). The EVSE is set to 24 amps and is not giving any errors. I'm going to ask the manufacturer next week to confirm that it, which again would mean that the truck is limiting itself. The last few posts were asking to rule out the outlet as not working correctly (understandable that if the circuits were all overloaded nothing would work at all because breakers would trip... But that is assuming the park correctly has everything wired, right?).

Correct….the purpose of my comment was to convey to others who come across this thread a little troubleshooting advice. Simply put, if you plug into a circuit that has proper voltage (important point), but find your charge rate is lower than expected, the circuit / receptacle isn’t the problem - don’t waste time looking at it.

I didn’t convey that very well, sorry.

 

[Firestop]

Correct….the purpose of my comment was to convey to others who come across this thread a little troubleshooting advice. Simply put, if you plug into a circuit that has proper voltage (important point), but find your charge rate is lower than expected, the circuit / receptacle isn’t the problem - don’t waste time looking at it.

I didn’t convey that very well, sorry.

I too didn’t mean to impugn anyones knowledge or competence with my question:

Curious, are you able to put a tester on your hookup to verify the V & A output available?

The analytical side of me was thinking to start with the source, and work from there……

@wighty , I was thinking about purchasing the same amperage selectable portable EVSE, so I’m really interested in what you find out from the manufacturer.………

 

[hturnerfamily]

I'm under the impression that any EVSE, whether 'adjustable' or not, is not going to adjust the 120v amperage, ONLY the 240v amperage. It may work with 120v, thru an adapter, but since it knows you would have to use an adapter to access any 120v outlet, it automatically has a 'fixed' amperage, probably 12amps, just like any 'emergency' EVSE that many EVs are shipped with.

The FORD supplied EVSE, though, has it's own 120v adapter, but it's certainly not adjustable, no matter what SIZE outlet you use, whether 15a, 20a, or a campground 30amp.
The 240v adapter, which most of us want to use, also will NOT work with any of those same 120v outlets, even with an adapter.....it MUST be a 240v outlet. Even if you use Ford's 240v adapter, and another adapter to plug into a 120v outlet, of any size, it still would not give you an adjustability, and would not even work, period. It is EXPECTING to see 240v power.

 

[Maquis]

I'm under the impression that any EVSE, whether 'adjustable' or not, is not going to adjust the 120v amperage, ONLY the 240v amperage. It may work with 120v, thru an adapter, but since it knows you would have to use an adapter to access any 120v outlet, it automatically has a 'fixed' amperage, probably 12amps, just like any 'emergency' EVSE that many EVs are shipped with.

The FORD supplied EVSE, though, has it's own 120v adapter, but it's certainly not adjustable, no matter what SIZE outlet you use, whether 15a, 20a, or a campground 30amp.
The 240v adapter, which most of us want to use, also will NOT work with any of those same 120v outlets, even with an adapter.....it MUST be a 240v outlet. Even if you use Ford's 240v adapter, and another adapter to plug into a 120v outlet, of any size, it still would not give you an adjustability, and would not even work, period. It is EXPECTING to see 240v power.

One thing that is possible (this is not a recommendation) is to feed the FMC with 240V into the 120V pigtail. It still charges at 12A, but the doubled voltage doubles the KW. People have done this when connecting to a 30A dryer receptacle so it’s not overloaded (which it would be using the 240V pigtail).

 

[wighty]

@wighty , I was thinking about purchasing the same amperage selectable portable EVSE, so I’m really interested in what you find out from the manufacturer

I sent an email today.

My OBD2 reader had a setting on it called High voltage battery charge requested (units is amps) and I only saw it hit 3.3 on the j+ booster.

I'm under the impression that any EVSE, whether 'adjustable' or not, is not going to adjust the 120v amperage, ONLY the 240v amperage. It may work with 120v, thru an adapter, but since it knows you would have to use an adapter to access any 120v outlet, it automatically has a 'fixed' amperage, probably 12amps, just like any 'emergency' EVSE that many EVs are shipped with.

That isn't the assumption I've worked on and I'm not really sure why that logic would be if you are buying an adjustable EVSE, why do you think they would limit the 120v to max 12a when there are plenty of 120v outlets that support higher? The charger I bought is designed to swap out the plug, including a TT-30, with the manual saying the amperage is automatically changed based on the plug you connected. I think it should be safe to assume when you manually change the amperage it should work on 120v until the manufacturer says otherwise.

 

[Firestop]

I sent an email today.

My OBD2 reader had a setting on it called High voltage battery charge requested (units is amps) and I only saw it hit 3.3 on the j+ booster.



That isn't the assumption I've worked on and I'm not really sure why that logic would be if you are buying an adjustable EVSE, why do you think they would limit the 120v to max 12a when there are plenty of 120v outlets that support higher? The charger I bought is designed to swap out the plug, including a TT-30, with the manual saying the amperage is automatically changed based on the plug you connected. I think it should be safe to assume when you manually change the amperage it should work on 120v until the manufacturer says otherwise.

I was operating under the same assumption as you, which is why I too wasinterested in buying it…..thx for sharing!!

 

[hturnerfamily]

yes, true, a few EVSE 120v/240v units give the option to change the 120v amperage as well, but if the question is about the supplied Ford Mobile Charger, no, it defaults to 12amps when using the 120v adapter.
I like the idea of a 120v adjustable amperage option, though, as yes, many outside and carport outlets are on 20amp breakers, and if camping , if you could use the 30amp outlet, that'd be great, but, then where would you plug in your camper? Well, you could use an adapter to plug the camper into the 20amp outlet next to it, and use the 30amp outlet for faster Lightning charging - I suppose it just depends on your needs and expendiency of charging.. It's all good.

 

[FlasherZ]

Teslas used to do this too, by the way - the original firmware for Model S used to limit to 16A for 120V regardless of whether you could handle more. They had to change the code in the car so that it would draw more.

A quick word on EVSE vs. charger (which is in the truck). The EVSE doesn't limit anything. It gives a very crude signal to the truck as to the maximum charge that is likely to be expected from it. It just sends a PWM 1 kHz signal to the truck indicating the maximum current in amps. The EVSE doesn't really even know what voltage will be supplied when the contactors close. The truck makes the decision on how much to draw.

If the truck is limiting 120V, then it's in the truck's firmware, not the EVSE.

PS - OBD2 "HV charge requested" is not the best value to use. If you want to see the amount advertised from the EVSE, you'll want the "HV Charger Pilot Duty Cycle", then you'll want to use the J1772 formula to determine what current that means. If you want to see the amount drawn by the charger, then take "HV Charger Power Flow Calculated" divided by "HV AC Charger Input Voltage". You can't use "HV AC Charger Input Current", because sometimes it's in simplex-charger mode and sometimes in duplex-charger mode. For example, the "input current" can show 15.0A and mean both 15A (only single charger active) and 30A (dual charger active).

 

[wighty]

, if you could use the 30amp outlet, that'd be great, but, then where would you plug in your camper? Well, you could use an adapter to plug the camper into the 20amp outlet next to it, and use the 30amp outlet for faster Lightning charging - I suppose it just depends on your needs and expendiency of charging.. It's all good.

You plug the RV into the "generator" port in your bed supplying 120/240 30a service! I did this yesterday for a while. If you can get the 24 amps drawing well it would work well over a weekend I think, as long as you don't have a giant AC unit on the RV. I originally had the truck attached to a 28 foot RV and the AC was doing around 1300w at its peak, and since I was only getting 11 amps I ended up slowly discharging the truck instead of charging. I switched to a smaller RV and that AC was only like 500w, so I ended up getting 500w to 1000w depending on the compressor cycling.


I think in theory you could get your truck close to fully charged over a Friday to Sunday camping trip if you get the 24 amps.

 

[DiveMan911]

Correct….the purpose of my comment was to convey to others who come across this thread a little troubleshooting advice. Simply put, if you plug into a circuit that has proper voltage (important point), but find your charge rate is lower than expected, the circuit / receptacle isn’t the problem - don’t waste time looking at it.

I didn’t convey that very well, sorry.

I think you've answered my question, but I want to follow up for a little more clarity:
I understand the Ford Mobile Charger is limited to 12amps at 120v. I purchased an aftermarket charger (for work) that claims to charge at 16amps at 120v....which is still acceptable on a 20amp circuit.
The user (me) is able to set the max current at 4/8/12/16 amps. It has an ammeter built in and despite being set at 16amps and on a 20amp circuit, it won't draw more than 12amps. Furthermore, when put on a 15amp circuit, it stays at 12amps and doesn't trip the breaker.

This leads me to believe that the truck's charging system recognizes the input voltage as 120v and limits the draw to 12amps...is that accurate?

 

[luebri]

I think you've answered my question, but I want to follow up for a little more clarity:
I understand the Ford Mobile Charger is limited to 12amps at 120v. I purchased an aftermarket charger (for work) that claims to charge at 16amps at 120v....which is still acceptable on a 20amp circuit.
The user (me) is able to set the max current at 4/8/12/16 amps. It has an ammeter built in and despite being set at 16amps and on a 20amp circuit, it won't draw more than 12amps. Furthermore, when put on a 15amp circuit, it stays at 12amps and doesn't trip the breaker.

This leads me to believe that the truck's charging system recognizes the input voltage as 120v and limits the draw to 12amps...is that accurate?

I sure hope this is not the case. I plan on using the Tesla mobile charger (with Tesla tap) with 20amp until I get the ford charge station pro. 16 amps vs 12 amps was big reason I went with this setup

 

[Maquis]

I think you've answered my question, but I want to follow up for a little more clarity:
I understand the Ford Mobile Charger is limited to 12amps at 120v. I purchased an aftermarket charger (for work) that claims to charge at 16amps at 120v....which is still acceptable on a 20amp circuit.
The user (me) is able to set the max current at 4/8/12/16 amps. It has an ammeter built in and despite being set at 16amps and on a 20amp circuit, it won't draw more than 12amps. Furthermore, when put on a 15amp circuit, it stays at 12amps and doesn't trip the breaker.

This leads me to believe that the truck's charging system recognizes the input voltage as 120v and limits the draw to 12amps...is that accurate?

What plug does your EVSE have? In order to be (properly) rated to deliver 16A on a 20A circuit, it needs to have a 20A plug.

 

[DiveMan911]

What plug does your EVSE have? In order to be (properly) rated to deliver 16A on a 20A circuit, it needs to have a 20A plug.

NEMA 5-15 plug, not a NEMA 5-20.
I’m feeling a little sheepish…I honestly didn’t know about the 5-20 plug.

So, that begs the following:

Would a 5-20 plug allow that extra amperage? (To be clear, it doesn’t seem like a smart idea…nor do I intend to do this…I’m speaking hypothetically)

Does the truck limit the amperage (at 120v)?

And/or is this charger offering something it can’t (or shouldn’t) do?

 

[Maquis]

NEMA 5-15 plug, not a NEMA 5-20.
I’m feeling a little sheepish…I honestly didn’t know about the 5-20 plug.

So, that begs the following:

Would a 5-20 plug allow that extra amperage? (To be clear, it doesn’t seem like a smart idea…nor do I intend to do this…I’m speaking hypothetically)

Does the truck limit the amperage (at 120v)?

And/or is this charger offering something it can’t (or shouldn’t) do?

No. Nothing about the circuit feeding the EVSE (breaker, wire size, receptacle, plug, etc) can limit the charge current. I don’t know if the Lightning limits 120V charging to 12A or not. It’s possible.
You didn’t mention make/model of your EVSE, so I can’t speculate on your last question.

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