Someone upgraded a SR to an ER.

[Lightning-E]

Not sure if this was mentioned yet, but during an Out of Specs Podcast Alex from WattWorks had a SR that he had just upgraded to an ER battery. Apparently it's plug and play.

Here's the video (34:35 is when he starts talking about it.):

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[Landscaper]

Not sure if this was mentioned yet, but during an Out of Specs Podcast Alex from WattWorks had a SR that he had just upgraded to an ER battery. Apparently it's plug and play.

Here's the video: 34:35 is when he starts talking about it.

The most interesting part to me was just over half way through where they, including Kyle, said maybe Ford’s slower charging speeds were perhaps starting to show early signs of better battery life than many of the faster charging EVs are experiencing.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/threads/sr-to-er-battery-swap-diy-project.31656/

 

[ctuan13]

The most interesting part to me was just over half way through where they, including Kyle, said maybe Ford’s slower charging speeds were perhaps starting to show early signs of better battery life than many of the faster charging EVs are experiencing.

This doesn't surprise me one bit at all. With my own experience over the years working with NMC battery cells in small and medium size electronics over the years and a lot of the data I've seen from our resident battery expert, it's clear that even with active cooling, the faster you charge a battery pack, the more wear it experiences for the same SOC change. This is compounded with large SOC deltas.

I've always found the Lightning to charge at a speed that was adequate, even if slightly slow. The possibly significantly increased longevity of the pack however, is something that I see as a huge bonus that is worth that trade off.

 

[thunderbayterry]

This doesn't surprise me one bit at all. With my own experience over the years working with NMC battery cells in small and medium size electronics over the years and a lot of the data I've seen from our resident battery expert, it's clear that even with active cooling, the faster you charge a battery pack, the more wear it experiences for the same SOC change. This is compounded with large SOC deltas.

I've always found the Lightning to charge at a speed that was adequate, even if slightly slow. The possibly significantly increased longevity of the pack however, is something that I see as a huge bonus that is worth that trade off.

I totally agree with this.

 

[On the Road with Ralph]

I've always found the Lightning to charge at a speed that was adequate, even if slightly slow. The possibly significantly increased longevity of the pack however, is something that I see as a huge bonus that is worth that trade off.

In light of this week's announcements on the Lightning, the prospect that the battery's longevity will be solid is good news for those of us who intend to hang onto our trucks. I'm 71, love my Lightning, and now expect that it will be the last vehicle I'll ever buy.

Side note: I have 62K miles on my 2023 SR Pro, and don't notice much - if any - loss of battery capacity. One day I'd like to get a scan of the truck to determine what loss the BMS thinks there is.

Given that the law requires that Ford warranty the batteries for at least eight years, there should continue to be a supply of replacement modules until at least 2033. During that time, the number of 3rd-party shops that support EVs will increase and there will be many battery packs salvaged from wrecks. With about 100K Lightnings in existence, I suspect a cottage industry will develop to maintain them. It also helps that the Lightning shares 30% or more of its parts with the ICE F-150; not everything we need to service them is special.

 

[Maxx]

The most interesting part to me was just over half way through where they, including Kyle, said maybe Ford’s slower charging speeds were perhaps starting to show early signs of better battery life than many of the faster charging EVs are experiencing.

I always wished we had a way to reduce charging speed from the receiving end. If you are at a DCFC with 7 other chargers open and you are going to get lunch and know it is going to take 45 minutes, you should be able to fit the charging speed to that time not faster.

 

[Lomilar]

This doesn't surprise me one bit at all. With my own experience over the years working with NMC battery cells in small and medium size electronics over the years and a lot of the data I've seen from our resident battery expert, it's clear that even with active cooling, the faster you charge a battery pack, the more wear it experiences for the same SOC change. This is compounded with large SOC deltas.

I've always found the Lightning to charge at a speed that was adequate, even if slightly slow. The possibly significantly increased longevity of the pack however, is something that I see as a huge bonus that is worth that trade off.

Almost all of these features are chemistry specific, but in lieu of hard evidence slower is better.

Something that strikes me about this is that Ford in general tends to do what's good for the vehicle, not what's good for the sale. I think there's something in their culture/process that considers total cost, longevity, and satisfaction over the life of the vehicle.

I say this because, while there are exceptions (aluminum skin?), much of their stuff is overengineered, especially the first couple of years each vehicle comes out. This seems to taper off as models are de-contented and otherwise optimized, and there are serious issues just with the numbers of recalls, but it makes sense to me that Ford's approach is fundamentally conservative when it comes to charging speed, etc, resulting in (presumably) longer ideal life.

This isn't unique to Ford, and others arguably execute this approach better (Toyota), but this gave me some comfort over a Rivian that must (as a company) find a way to survive.

Anyway, that's my soft pitch that I think Ford knew what they were doing with the slower charging. It is entirely possible it was also a convenient excuse.

 

[chl]

Back to the SR to ER upgrade/swap...not a lot of detail.

Nothing about any dual charger issue, or what the display shows for capacity after the swap, and so forth, for example.

So did the "pack" he swapped include the second charger?
$8500 for a used ER pack is not a bad or a great price I suppose - the option from Ford was $10k new as I recall.

Maybe someday down the road someone will make a Solid State battery that can be plug-n-play for the Lightning.

Replacing the battery after an 8 year warranty seems to be way way down the road since they last a long time - there's the 1% to 2% capacity loss per year that is unavoidable.

But things I can do to maximize lifespan, avoiding fast charging, deep charging/discharging (more than 50%), extremes of heat and cold, means this truck battery may outlive me and still have a practical useful range.

 

[shoopg]

Back to the SR to ER upgrade/swap...not a lot of detail.

Nothing about any dual charger issue, or what the display shows for capacity after the swap, and so forth, for example.

So did the "pack" he swapped include the second charger?
$8500 for a used ER pack is not a bad or a great price I suppose - the option from Ford was $10k new as I recall.

Maybe someday down the road someone will make a Solid State battery that can be plug-n-play for the Lightning.

Replacing the battery after an 8 year warranty seems to be way way down the road since they last a long time - there's the 1% to 2% capacity loss per year that is unavoidable.

But things I can do to maximize lifespan, avoiding fast charging, deep charging/discharging (more than 50%), extremes of heat and cold, means this truck battery may outlive me and still have a practical useful range.

Few things to note here. The chargers are separate from the battery. 2022 and 2023 ER trucks had dual on board chargers. Swapping the pack and only the pack from an ER into an SR will have no effect on the L2 charging performance unless you also swap in the secondary onboard charger.

Next that $8500 was for the pack swap installed. So that includes the shop labor and supplies that Alex charges the customer. I’m currently looking at ER packs for my truck anywhere from $3500 to $7500. That’s an insanely good price for the kWh these battery packs contain.

A number of people have stated that these pack swaps in Lightnings are pretty much plug and play. Capacity is instantly read correctly and no codes are thrown. It doesn’t even seem like you have to change the VIN in the BECM.

I’m also hopeful that someone comes out with aftermarket packs for these trucks as they age and new chemistries come out. The Lightning is really the only real body on frame truck EV and the parts commonality with the ICE F150 is almost invaluable. I think these Lightnings will end up being much more desirable than the Rivians/CT/GM trucks as time goes on especially if the aftermarket steps up.

 

[PreservedSwine]

Back to the SR to ER upgrade/swap...not a lot of detail.

Nothing about any dual charger issue, or what the display shows for capacity after the swap, and so forth, for example.

So did the "pack" he swapped include the second charger?
$8500 for a used ER pack is not a bad or a great price I suppose - the option from Ford was $10k new as I recall.

Maybe someday down the road someone will make a Solid State battery that can be plug-n-play for the Lightning.

Replacing the battery after an 8 year warranty seems to be way way down the road since they last a long time - there's the 1% to 2% capacity loss per year that is unavoidable.

But things I can do to maximize lifespan, avoiding fast charging, deep charging/discharging (more than 50%), extremes of heat and cold, means this truck battery may outlive me and still have a practical useful range.

Take a look at the link a few posts up. Someone here did it, and most answers are there. Yes, it read correctly. No reprogramming.

 

[CD4TNF]

The important message for potential Lightning owners is. Don't pass up on an SR Lightning because of the smaller battery. It can get upgraded.

There are so many crashed Lightnings to harvest batteries from.

Our community is really good at DIY and mods. I have confidence we will get to the level of community support that the Leaf owners have in maintaining and upgrading their Leaf EVs as we attempt and learn what upgrades we can do to the Lightning.

It makes it all the more valuable to save the parts from those crashed Lightnings as time goes on. Once Ford ends support for the Lightnings in 10 years, spare parts will be our only source of Lightning specific parts.

 

[ctuan13]

Few things to note here. The chargers are separate from the battery. 2022 and 2023 ER trucks had dual on board chargers. Swapping the pack and only the pack from an ER into an SR will have no effect on the L2 charging performance unless you also swap in the secondary onboard charger.

Next that $8500 was for the pack swap installed. So that includes the shop labor and supplies that Alex charges the customer. I’m currently looking at ER packs for my truck anywhere from $3500 to $7500. That’s an insanely good price for the kWh these battery packs contain.

A number of people have stated that these pack swaps in Lightnings are pretty much plug and play. Capacity is instantly read correctly and no codes are thrown. It doesn’t even seem like you have to change the VIN in the BECM.

I’m also hopeful that someone comes out with aftermarket packs for these trucks as they age and new chemistries come out. The Lightning is really the only real body on frame truck EV and the parts commonality with the ICE F150 is almost invaluable. I think these Lightnings will end up being much more desirable than the Rivians/CT/GM trucks as time goes on especially if the aftermarket steps up.

This is something I've said from the beginning and one of the reasons I planned on keeping my Lightning long term from day one. It's a body-on-frame design with a battery pack that's held in with 18 or 19 bolts and it just drops out. Almost no other EV on the market has a battery that's so easily accessible and removed and installed. Combining that with the new insight that swapping in a new pack truly is plug and play, further solidifies my belief that in just a few years there will be a burgeoning market for aftermarket batteries and a heightened demand for these trucks as both drivers and as a platform for EV mods, projects and builds.

Only time will tell, but I'm highly optimistic the Lightning will become the Panther Platform (Crown Vic, Town Car, Grand Marquis/Marauder) of the large EV world. Reliable, tough, easy to work on, high parts availability and highly modifiable/upgradable frame platform.

 

[shoopg]

This is something I've said from the beginning and one of the reasons I planned on keeping my Lightning long term from day one. It's a body-on-frame design with a battery pack that's held in with 18 or 19 bolts and it just drops out. Almost no other EV on the market has a battery that's so easily accessible and removed and installed. Combining that with the new insight that swapping in a new pack truly is plug and play, further solidifies my belief that in just a few years there will be a burgeoning market for aftermarket batteries and a heightened demand for these trucks as both drivers and as a platform for EV mods, projects and builds.

Only time will tell, but I'm highly optimistic the Lightning will become the Panther Platform (Crown Vic, Town Car, Grand Marquis/Marauder) of the large EV world. Reliable, tough, easy to work on, high parts availability and highly modifiable/upgradable frame platform.

Even better, it’s only 8 bolts lol

 

[bc1]

Actually the Prius battery pack is fairly easy to get at and remove if needed. I've just looked at the top of one but it's accessible back there and if you want to pull the cover and start checking the cells for replacement while standing at the back of a Prius is doable as well. When I priced an aftermarket one a few years ago on my daughter's 2008 (a hand me down from us) it was around $2000-2200. Probably more now. The battery pack wasn't the problem as it was a bad inverter pump and valve throwing confusing codes.

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