EV motor maintenance? Gear fluid change? When?

[Robert1380]

I usually take my Lightning in every 5k miles to rotate the tires and have the service team check over the vehicle. After checking the truck over, the service technician makes a video showing me the critical areas that have been checked. While watching the video I spotted what looked like an oil filter attached to the rear electrical motor. I asked my service advisor what I was seeing, and he check with the technician who confirmed that it was an oil filter, but it wasn’t scheduled for replacement until 150k miles. To my eyes it looks like regular oil filter, just like the ones I have changed on my ICE Fords in years past.

i

That is awesome! Is that at a Ford dealer providing that service?

Sponsored

 

[Piquette]

Yes, my dealer is Grappone Ford in Concord, NH.

 

[Robert1380]

Yes, my dealer is Grappone Ford in Concord, NH.

That’s a great dealer. They don’t do that around here. Hell your lucky if they even fix the vehicle correctly.

 

[Jseis]

All the published specs show it at 9.61:1. But I'm not sure I follow you on the heat thing. What does engine heat have to do with axle gear temperature? I would venture to say that the electric motor gear oil will get hotter than the differential on an ICE because the case is also housing the motor, whereas on an ICE truck the differential is separate, and it catches a lot of airflow.

I think we agree..,modern ICE AWD cars efficiency is tied to effective combustion and heat management critical with higher compression/operating temperatures/exhaust temps and engine/transaxles units means more nearby heat sinks, thus heat damaged gear oils.

BEV motor-transaxle units don’t generate anywhere near the heat that BEVs do, thus their transaxle gear oils have a ”cooler” environment. I’m not saying they don’t generate heat, but nothing like a BEV.

 

[Piquette]

BEV motor-transaxle units don’t generate anywhere near the heat that BEVs do, thus their transaxle gear oils have a ”cooler” environment. I’m not saying they don’t generate heat, but nothing like a BEV.

I’m sorry, you lost me there. Do you mean BEV motor- Transaxle units don’t generate anywhere near the heat that “ICEs” do?

 

[WXman]

I think we agree..,modern ICE AWD cars efficiency is tied to effective combustion and heat management critical with higher compression/operating temperatures/exhaust temps and engine/transaxles units means more nearby heat sinks, thus heat damaged gear oils.

BEV motor-transaxle units don’t generate anywhere near the heat that BEVs do, thus their transaxle gear oils have a ”cooler” environment. I’m not saying they don’t generate heat, but nothing like a BEV.

I’m sorry, you lost me there. Do you mean BEV motor- Transaxle units don’t generate anywhere near the heat that “ICEs” do?

Yeah I'm kind of lost too. Lol.

So, what I'm talking about is an ICE F-150 vs. an EV F-150. Or any ICE truck really.

If you look at how they are designed on an ICE truck, the differential (and therefore gear oil) is in a totally separate housing. The rear gear oil is nowhere near any other sources of heat, except maybe the exhaust tailpipe which is 18" to 24" away. The front gear oil is in a totally separate housing from the engine with a large air envelope between them. AND, in addition to all this both of those differentials are getting airflow directly over them while driving because they hang low and exposed.

By contrast on the EV F-150 the motor and gearbox are one. AND they are surrounded by skid plating and shields so that little to no airflow is passing over them. This is true front and rear. So, the heat generated by the electricity coming into them and friction is going to cause them to heat up quite a bit.

So I surmise that maybe on an EV truck like the Lightning, it will be MORE important to keep the gear oil changed on a regular basis. These automakers spec really long fluid change intervals for marketing purposes. It creates a perceived lower cost of ownership. Also, they get EPA kick-backs when they spec longer change intervals. But, the truth is that changing fluids and oils far more often than the manual calls for will almost always lead to better longevity of vehicles.

 

[RLXXI]

Typical ice runs @ 200°f. The electric motors don't come close to that much heat. I don't have the actual spec handy. I'll look it up when I get home.

 

[Athrun88]

So I surmise that maybe on an EV truck like the Lightning, it will be MORE important to keep the gear oil changed on a regular basis. These automakers spec really long fluid change intervals for marketing purposes. It creates a perceived lower cost of ownership. Also, they get EPA kick-backs when they spec longer change intervals. But, the truth is that changing fluids and oils far more often than the manual calls for will almost always lead to better longevity of vehicles.

I generally have the same philosophy; I'd rather spend a few extra bucks to ensure my consumables are fresh/well maintained than have to replace the full unit or module. On all my previous ICE vehicles, I did full synthetic oil/filter changes around every 10,000km (6,200mi), tires every 80-100,000km (50-62,000mi) and transmission/diff fluid changes and brake pads/rotors every 100,000km (62,000mi). Sure the manual says longer, but is there any actual harm in changing fluids sooner/more often other than me spending more money?

Things hold even more true for me now that I have an EV. Near ZERO cost in maintenance, other than washer fluid, tire rotations, etc... will only encourage me to change out any luberication fluids in the truck sooner than what the manual calls for. Lots of people see the "Don't change for 100,000km" marketing but they fail to see the tiny "Up to" in 2pt font size before the 100,000 number. Also, I personally believe that most of these intervals are determined in a lab or simulated use and does not 100% accurately reflect what could/would happen in the real world such as unexpected contaminant intrusion or premature internal component wear.

 

[RLXXI]

I generally have the same philosophy; I'd rather spend a few extra bucks to ensure my consumables are fresh/well maintained than have to replace the full unit or module. On all my previous ICE vehicles, I did full synthetic oil/filter changes around every 10,000km (6,200mi), tires every 80-100,000km (50-62,000mi) and transmission/diff fluid changes and brake pads/rotors every 100,000km (62,000mi). Sure the manual says longer, but is there any actual harm in changing fluids sooner/more often other than me spending more money?

Things hold even more true for me now that I have an EV. Near ZERO cost in maintenance, other than washer fluid, tire rotations, etc... will only encourage me to change out any luberication fluids in the truck sooner than what the manual calls for. Lots of people see the "Don't change for 100,000km" marketing but they fail to see the tiny "Up to" in 2pt font size before the 100,000 number. Also, I personally believe that most of these intervals are determined in a lab or simulated use and does not 100% accurately reflect what could/would happen in the real world such as unexpected contaminant intrusion or premature internal component wear.

The only harm is to your wallet.

 

[Athrun88]

The only harm is to your wallet.

... other than me spending more money?

Other than that . Gotta pay to play.

 

[bmwhitetx]

I love all the non-engineers on here second guessing the manufacturer and their engineering teams.

Manufacturers have always leaned toward a conservative approach in maintenance requiring service sooner rather than later. If Ford says 150K then that’s good enough for me.

My son does cooling systems engineering at a major vehicle manufacturer. The amount of testing, measuring, etc they do now is incredible. When I ask him if he considered “x”, he rolls his eyes and starts talking Greek to me.

 

[Heliian]

To my eyes it looks like regular oil filte

It is a spin on type filter, the internals will be different whether it's engine oil, fuel, Hydraulic or coolant. Some spin ons are in the suction line, some pressure.

I'd rather spend a few extra bucks to ensure my consumables are fresh/well maintained than have to replace the full unit or module

The only harm is to your wallet.

One of the main reasons most automatic transmissions don't have a filter replacement is that opening the system created more problems than keeping it sealed. Modern oils don't need to be replaced as frequently.

 

[Athrun88]

I love all the non-engineers on here second guessing the manufacturer and their engineering teams.

Manufacturers have always leaned toward a conservative approach in maintenance requiring service sooner rather than later. If Ford says 150K then that’s good enough for me.

My son does cooling systems engineering at a major vehicle manufacturer. The amount of testing, measuring, etc they do now is incredible. When I ask him if he considered “x”, he rolls his eyes and starts talking Greek to me.

So what you're saying is that there isn't any harm since what I personally do as a 'non-engineer' is even more conservative than the manufacturer. What is the harm in swapping something out before it completely wears out? That's like saying you don't have to replace tires until you hit the wear bars, don't change the oil until the oil light turns on, or brakes until they squeal. I agree and I have 100% confidence that manufacturers have built in margins and such with millions of dollars in R&D/testing and employ people who are infinitely smarter than I am; however, it still doesn't discourage me from doing more maintenance than is called for as long as I am aware of the added overall cost in doing so.

One of the main reasons most automatic transmissions don't have a filter replacement is that opening the system created more problems than keeping it sealed. Modern oils don't need to be replaced as frequently.

I agree they don't need to be replaced as frequently but even modern automatic transmissions have ports and openings to facilitate the replacement of the fluid inside or inspections. I don't do those changes myself and would take it to a shop. As there are ports built in for the purpose of draining and filling fluids, I don't see how it creates more problems if it's been engineered/designed for it.

 

[WXman]

Typical ice runs @ 200°f. The electric motors don't come close to that much heat. I don't have the actual spec handy. I'll look it up when I get home.

A differential in an ICE truck runs at 200 degrees?

The only harm is to your wallet.

But if it reduces repairs, one could argue that it helps the wallet...in the long run.

I love all the non-engineers on here second guessing the manufacturer and their engineering teams.

Manufacturers have always leaned toward a conservative approach in maintenance requiring service sooner rather than later. If Ford says 150K then that’s good enough for me.

If you believe that, I have some ocean front property in Kansas that I'll sell you.

Truth is it's exactly the opposite. These OE's spec fluids that save THEM money. For example, 0W20 oils ONLY happened because it saves them money on EPA certification, not because it's what extends the life of an engine. They spec longer intervals because the EPA rewards them for it. They couldn't care less if your vehicle lasts 500,000 miles. They just want to get through warranty period, and then they hope you buy another.

 

[bmwhitetx]

Well there’s the whole sealed system thing. You and @RLXXI I would probably trust. I think an amateur DIY’er could do more harm than good.

Sponsored