Ram Rev video (Preview)

[hturnerfamily]

...agreed: my thoughts exactly. But, apparently, Manufacturers know more than we do.

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[TaxmanHog]

It's targeted to folks with expectations that don't align with most folks 'opinions' on this and like minded forums.

 

[djwildstar]

so who is the target audience for something like this?

<voice="car-salesman">Ya see, it's got the zero-to-sixty and all the instant torque of an electric, but ya never have ta stop and charge it, right, and it runs great on regular gas!</voice>

The target audience is dealerships.

 

[Zprime29]

It has a battery slightly smaller than the standard range lightning but its weight is greater than an Extended range lightning. Of course it's going to be less range and efficiency than a BEV... It's got to carry an engine and fuel/tank around when in BEV mode. Same goes when using it in V6 mode. You're hauling around a 1200lb battery and electric motors for nothing so it's going to be less efficient than an ICE truck with just the same V6. Worst of both worlds on display.

Multiple (real world) tests have shown that weight matters very little when there's so much power available. While using the V6 to provide the electricity, power is still going to the electric motors. The engine is not connected to the drive train at all. EV only traction all the time, even with the engine at full speed.

Ram is trolling with that window sticker for the 2025 display. Base model will not be $100k, they know that would be idiotic. I think price will be comparable to an ER Lightning. It has roughly a SR battery so start with a SR price. Now how much extra did For charge for the ER battery? $10k. That sounds about right to add in the ICE portion (which already has economy of scale to reduce cost).

 

[EV Engineer]

Cool engineering feat honestly.

I cannot imagine being a car salesman and explaining this thing to a typical consumer. Especially when there will be an ICE variant right next to it for probably 15k less.

Aren't PHEV's only like 1-3% of all car sales? Interesting the manufactures think this will be successful.

Wish them luck. Will see how it does.

 

[Maineiac12]

so who is the target audience for something like this?

Me.

And I suspect a lot of other people as well. There’s enough electric range to cover my daily commute and then some. There’s no transmission and the electric motors are the only thing driving it so you’ll get all the power and torque I’m used to from my lightning.

I live in the Midwest and pull a camper. The gas generator is a lifesaver for towing in rural areas where the charger density is bad. I don’t mind stopping to charge now, but sometimes they’re too far apart to safely make the trip when towing or they aren’t trailer friendly. Having a gas backup option is a good thing and will help many people bridge the gap until the tech catches up. Plus, all electric power will get more people hooked on EVs which benefits all of us.

 

[Altivec]

Multiple (real world) tests have shown that weight matters very little when there's so much power available. While using the V6 to provide the electricity, power is still going to the electric motors. The engine is not connected to the drive train at all. EV only traction all the time, even with the engine at full speed.

Ram is trolling with that window sticker for the 2025 display. Base model will not be $100k, they know that would be idiotic. I think price will be comparable to an ER Lightning. It has roughly a SR battery so start with a SR price. Now how much extra did For charge for the ER battery? $10k. That sounds about right to add in the ICE portion (which already has economy of scale to reduce cost).

Real world tests don't trump physics. With everything else being equal, it takes more energy to move something that is heavier. OEM's spend countless hours in design trying to shave off a few pounds here and there and you seem to believe that strapping a V6 engine, gas tank with fuel, exhaust, rad with coolant, inverters, etc... is almost like nothing at all. It weighs more than the Lightning ER and has a battery with less PAK performance (ie less horsepower) than a Lightning SR. Efficiency and performance are going to be worse than either of the Lightnings. Then In ICE mode, you are hauling around a 1200lb battery which is going to cause you to have less performance and efficiency than a V6 ICE truck. I don't get how people think RAM figured out to defy physics. You get all this crappy efficiency and performance for the cost of your guess (an ER Lightning) plus you get to fill it up with gas and do oil changes.

I don't get the appeal at all. The only reason to get this is if you do considerable long range driving, and if that's the case, why not just get an ICE truck at half the cost. Do you really think you are going to make up the initial cost from savings of using it in EV mode once in a while. In the mean time you have a truck that performs worse in every scenario, complex to repair, and will be amongst the most expensive.

 

[TwentyTwentyThree]

Okay. I am wrong. They will sell two more units than I anticipated.

 

[mr.Magoo]

Me.

But is it still for you if it's $20,000 more than the equivalent gas/ice model?

 

[DavidS]

One point that came to mind when reading these comments is, it seems to be a industry consensus that you need to go to a software defined vehicle with only a few cpu’s in an EV to optimize costs. Once you throw a generator in, is that even possible? My guess is these trucks will end up like the Lightning with mostly legacy architecture without a clear path to integration of the whole ICE fuel management and emission controls into a software defined system. Best case is you have a whole EV/vehicle control system and a completely separate generator control system that need to talk to each other.

 

[djwildstar]

Real world tests don't trump physics. [...]

Yes. The EREV pickups are likley to be less-efficient than a BEV truck when driving on battery power, and less-efficient than a gas pickup for gas-powered miles. The back-of-the-envelope numbers for the RAM EREV suggest 30% lower electric efficency than a Lightning, and 20% lower gas mileage than an EcoBoost F-150.

So the EREV pickups are primarily for people who do a mix of local commuting and errand running plus long-distance driving or towing; and for whom two vehicles (one EV and one gas) doesn't make sense. At the pictured price point for the RAM EREV, you could buy a 3.5L EcoBoost F-150 with a tow package plus a Mach-E and still come out ahead.

 

[Maineiac12]

But is it still for you if it's $20,000 more than the equivalent gas/ice model?

The devil is always in the details. We don’t know pricing and real world performance yet. We’ll have to wait and see how it shakes out. Thankfully with both Ford and Ram jumping in, there will be competition.

I thought the Lightning was for me when it first came out until the dealers go ahold of them and pricing went through the roof. It wasn’t until a few years later when I could get one for close to the cost of an ICE version that I bought mine.

 

[Zprime29]

Real world tests don't trump physics.

He added an entire EV to the trailer and it made very little difference. Note that I said little difference, not no difference. I've hauled a maxed out payload of compost in my bed, could not tell a difference in my efficiency. The point I'm making is that the lower efficiency (2.0mpk ball park based on 70kWh useable and 145mi range expected) is most likely not from the added weight. The Silverado EV weighs 1000lbs more than the Ram Rev and it gets 2.4mpk.

I'm not saying the Ram Rev will be super efficient, just pointing out that the weight has negligible impact. Tires, aero, and motors are more likely the cause.

 

[reddog21]

Until the tires hit the pavement and you have some real-world metrics, it’s all subjective.

 

[mr.Magoo]

The devil is always in the details. We don’t know pricing and real world performance yet.

.....

It wasn’t until a few years later when I could get one for close to the cost of an ICE version that I bought mine.

So, the answer is "No", not unless it sells like s-t and they offer heavy discounts to offset the additional cost.

While we don't know the price, we can safely assume that it won't be less.

It's the "same" truck less gearbox, drive shaft and differential. A 130kW generator and electric motors aren't cheap, maybe $5,000 more (on the low end) compared to it's mechanical cousins, then it's the HV battery, $10-12K, plus all the other bits that comes with electrification.

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